B2B Community Builder Show (formerly Chief Executive Connector)

119 | How To Simplify Your Messaging w/ Sustainable Growth Evangelist, Kalim Aull (part 2 of 2)

June 24, 2021 Pablo Gonzalez / Kalim Aull Season 3 Episode 119
B2B Community Builder Show (formerly Chief Executive Connector)
119 | How To Simplify Your Messaging w/ Sustainable Growth Evangelist, Kalim Aull (part 2 of 2)
Show Notes Transcript

This is part 2 of 2 from a value-packed conversation with Kalim Aull.

Kalim's super power is in full display here!

Kalim Aull is a simplifier at his core.  This makes him a valuable guy for anyone trying to grow a business.

His ability to break down business models through simple language and easy-to-understand graphics is possible only because of his ability to understand the best practices of marketing, sales, and customer success at a really high level.

This is the second part of our conversation where he helps me simplify my business model into an easily understandable value proposition.

If you didn't hear the first part of the conversation where Kalim blows your mind on the new game of sales, marketing, and customer success, go back and listen!

Connect with Kalim!

On his LinkedIn

We talk A LOT about the PEAK community we are both a member of.  If you want to join a super valuable community of CMOs, future CMOs, and Top 1% Marketers, go to PEAK and let them know you came because of this conversation between Kalim and I.

Connect with ME!

Also, I'd love it if you connected with me on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Or shoot me an email at youshould@connectwithpablo.com with the "Heard CEC's Charod" in subject.

This that's a genius email address?  Me too, but I didn't come up with it.  It was the idea of my good friend, and super talented web designer, Nathan Ruff.

If you want your website redone, updated, and managed with unlimited updates for just $250/month (CRAZY GOOD DEAL RIGHT??), go to Manage My Website and hookup with one of the smartest, most talented guys I've ever met- THE Nathan Ruff.


Support the show
Kalim Aul:

Hey guys, my name's Colleen, I'm a sustainable growth evangelist and I met Pablo through the peak community, a community for marketers who want to get 1% better every week. And the future of business development is community developed. so I don't know the details. Do you understand? I don't know the details, the tactics but what I do know is you are pushing for community building in sales. Yeah. Essentially you're saying that building community. around some greater purpose, whatever that is for you, right. some greater set of values, whatever that is for, you know, building community is bar none the best way. to sell

Pablo Gonzalez:

I am saying that a hundred percent, yeah. The most sustainable way to sell.

Kalim Aul:

I just actually think they go not the best, the most sustainable way to sell more descriptive. Right. yeah. And so, you know, what's, what's what ends up happening here is you end up, you're kind of at the crossroads of the before type of sales and the after type of sales, the old org structure. And then my, the way I like it. Which is I'm going to hire only salespeople, not, they're not going to be salespeople, but only community builders. Right? I'm going to have a small team of assassins, right? Who are real they're thought leaders. They're actually thought leaders, you know, they actually stand for something and they put value out there. Right. And as a result, they're incredible salespeople. They're incredible salespeople, great social skills, great on calls. Right. so there's going to be a transition here from that old world to that new world. And what you are advocating for is the new way of behaving the new way that a sales person behaves. Right. What does, you know, we have to call it something different now, you know, because that label is screwing everything up. I can't call you a sales person and then have you do community development, right? You were taking all the leverage away from the salespeople. Don't wait to this

Pablo Gonzalez:

guy. We're taking the power away from the final transactional point, right? Like the, like, I, we are reframing the final transactional point from a conversion to an enrollment, right? Like you know, I'm not trying to convince you to do this. I want you to enroll in, to this

Kalim Aul:

good. From conversion to enrollment mindset, conversion-based mindset to enrollment based mindset. This is very similar to my persuasion versus facilitation.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yup. They're

Kalim Aul:

mirroring each other. Right. So I think that's good. You found your own words to describe that even. That's great. yes. So it's an entirely different philosophy. It's an entirely different ideology altogether. We're thinking about things totally differently. What is our job here? You know, what are you really doing here? Yeah. And with that right with this, I think that the, the incentives and the compensation has to change for people who are doing this because of the way sales has been boxed in. Traditionally it's mostly quotas and bonuses for acquisition, right. HubSpot. If the client. Cancels before eight months, the sales reps gets nothing. I was telling you they were moving towards a sustainable growth quadrant. What happened is Brian Halligan realized on the flywheel. He realized, oh, this isn't, I love this. But ah, delight is the strongest channel attract and engage or not the strongest channels. Damn it delight is the strongest channel. Ah, now I have to like refocus my business on delight Well, that's ramp pure delight, right? There's no, it's, it's all inside out Right? So even Brian Halligan is feeling this like then we won I then I, I suggest that we just become a delight focused business and trash all this, and they didn't like that. Right. so, so, so, but you know, basically what's happening is it's like even that inbound flywheel. HubSpot knows that you don't just do this. There's actually one of these that's more important delighting people delighting your customers. Right. so in, in, in, in any case, right, I talked about the sales compensation there, right? The, the, the, the, the, the problem is that, you know, salespeople have no responsibility for lifetime value or for customer success, the same way marketing people have no responsibility for it. Right. so we have to reframe both of those departments that spend all their time on the outside, right. And balance them out. Right. Reframe the way they think about things, reframe their purpose. So it's very, it's very hard to be honest to talk, you know, to have to have discussions with a lot of marketers Who are working in companies and have deadlines and all these things are salespeople for me, because I always want to take them backwards and change the whole thing from the beginning. Like you're trying to do, it's like, no, why are we doing all this? Why don't we do it this way? Right. so I, I think that there's a very specific type of business that is, that has the mentality and that's ready to make the type of moves you're talking about with salespeople into community development is a specialist or special businesses, you know? and they're the best way to qualify those businesses is to look at their behavior on social. What are they doing? Because you'll know whether they believe it or not. The behavior will tell you.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Would it help if I described to you my methodology and my service and what I do as quickly as possible, because I think we're hitting on a lot of good things here. You know there's two parts of the knife here, right? Like I agree. I agree that I can identify people that subscribed to my methodology by seeing their behavior on social. My fear is that if they're already behaving that way on social, they don't really need me, but they're good guests for my podcast to prove my point. Right.

Kalim Aul:

It could be one of those things.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah. No. And it could be that, or it just could be, you know, I, I do think that I do think that if I go through, for example, I think that. I think sweet fish media does this really well sweet fish media, by the way, strikingly similar to what I sell. There's just small differentiations in it. I think Terminus is doing this really well. I think gong is doing this really well. I think BombBomb is doing this really well. Right? So to your point, I think that a fertile ground, for me to find potential clients is people that are engaged in the content made by these folks

Kalim Aul:

in the game. Yeah. They believe in that

Pablo Gonzalez:

game. They believe in that game. So

Kalim Aul:

they're playing it, but maybe they're playing it a competence and you're going to take them to

Pablo Gonzalez:

excellence. Yeah. They've been delighted by it. Therefore I can show them, listen, I know a way for you to delight your clients the way that BombBomb is delighting you. Exactly. Right. End. That might be the, the conversation started not coincidentally, my three best leads that have come in the last month have come from me, creating content around a guy that is a big evangelist for the Dan Sullivan community for strategic coach and the people that I've spoke to since then that have come from Justin Brene that have come from. Yeah. And that have come from like, oh, I saw a piece from Justin Brene and now I'm engaged in conversations with them. Those have been the three, like easiest people to move along my sales process that I've had in a long time. Now, why why is that what you said? Right. Because they already subscribed to this sustainable growth thing. Right. And it's just, it is what, what, so two things that I'm already like, all right. I clearly need to make a move on. This is a market to people that follow. These companies that are doing this on LinkedIn and be, and by market, I think it's going to be a lot of like hand-to-hand engagement. because I don't think I can run

Kalim Aul:

ads for ABM. It's more

Pablo Gonzalez:

correct. Which is, again, what brought me to the peak community is because I want to understand ABM better. Cause I realized that what I do fits well in for that. And too, I think I just need to join strategic coach, bro. You know, which is, which is by the way, what Justin Brene told me on the podcasts that I had with him, he was like, yeah, you need to join it because you're only going to talk to people that believe in what you believe. And I'm like, yeah, sure. And then I've been like pussyfooting around on it. I think. I mean, I'll be

Kalim Aul:

there once I have 200 K bro a year. Yeah. I'll be there.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize it was 200 K so that's pretty sure you have, have 200

Kalim Aul:

K of income a year to even start.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Oh, okay. And income a year, but it doesn't cost 200 K to do

GMT20210519-193251_Recording_avo_640x360:

it.

Kalim Aul:

Okay. Of your own personal income per year. Okay. Because they want to make sure that they're not screwing you somehow. Yeah,

Pablo Gonzalez:

basically, right? Yeah. That makes sense. It's like a, it's like qualifying for a loan qualifying for one. All right. Cool, man. All right. So then let me tell you, so then let me tell you, if you don't mind, man, let me, let me, let me tell you about the the relationship I will. Right? So what I, I call it the relationship fly wheel, right? So it fits into everything that we've been talking about. And the way that it works is it has three pillars, right? Value, connections, and content. And when I take on a client, the way that I execute this thing is listen. At the end of the day, it all revolves around a regular live online show where you are, what is now can also called an online event, or it can be called a zoom call or a webinar or whatever you want to call it. Right? Like where. My client will be having a in-depth conversation with a key relationship, right. That is important to them in front of an audience full of clients and leads and people in that ecosystem, and then repurposing that content. Right? And the methodology is us. So value, connections, content, right? The way that you get people to show up is by understanding what is valuable to your clientele and the people that want to do business with you. Right? So in the case of JWB, turnkey, rental income property provider, we figured out that what's valuable to their clients is a being educated on real estate and the different avenues of building what the real estate being educated on other asset classes and how they fit into a risk portfolio and a return portfolio being educated on Jacksonville. Because if you're going to buy a house that you're going to run out in Jacksonville, you don't want to think, you know, you got to believe that it isn't just any Tom Florida You gotta, you gotta be, you gotta build trust with people on their team. Right? So we're going to want to showcase people on their team, which are phenomenal, and people want to know who else is doing this. Right? So again, showcasing clientele, right? So that, that is what we figured out was valuable. That was the value piece for that client. And what happens then is once you understand what's valuable, then you take inventory within your clientele. You take inventory within your network of, you know, partners and providers within your, your team themselves and within an arm's length of the network of who can you invite to show up to, to something like this that will show up and we'll provide that value. Right? And. Through iteration. We figured out that the most valuable piece is an existing client that has a, you know, so the value becomes the whole point of what you're going to show up to learn. Right? So real life example, we had a gentleman called Ken Mylene who showed up and he is a 85 year old gentlemen that at 80 run out of retirement money took a reverse mortgage on his house, put it in T-bills that wasn't giving him the income that he needed. So then he took another reverse mortgage because he lived in, in Silicon valley. And would that, would that appreciation that he had from that equity, he was able to acquire enough rental income properties to get to 3000 plus dollars a month in income. That is more than what he needed for his retirement. Right. So it's like, you know, funding your retirement when you run out of money is the whole point, that's the value piece. That's going to bring people to the stage. Right. So like you got to focus on. Yeah. Yeah. So you got, you got to focus on the idea that. Yes. You have a solution for people, but no, you are not the whole thing. Like there is a whole ecosystem of value that you can provide your client who is deciding whether to do business or not, or do more business with you. That is a revolves around your solution and not you themselves. So it's like, don't be the star of the stage is be the stage for that value themselves. Right. That's what my company is called. Be the stage. Right? So that, that's, that's part one of the pillars, the value that you're going to have on that stage now, when you are there and you're having your weekly or every other week or monthly or whatever, you know, whatever cadence you're doing this at, you focus on the connection piece. Right. And there's three connections that we drive by having a host that, that helps them host it and you know, plan everything. So, so on the value end, we handle all the understanding of what's valuable and how to drive that conversation. Right? So we, we take care of all of that. So then when you're there at the moment of the event, We're driving three connections. One is the connection between our client and the guest, right? So that is the one-to-one right. That is the one, you know, getting, getting them to like really understand, know each other and getting them to get the most out of the guest and, and make the guest feel like they've you know, the delight, right? Like, this is me taking you to dinner and getting you to tell me your whole life story and being enthralled by it, and then be like, who else can I introduce you to? Right. so, so that kinda driving that connection, and that is often, again, it's a key relationship. It's either an existing client. It's a potential client. It's somebody that is an industry expert that you want to be guilty by association with it's, stuff like that. Right. All validation. It's, it's somebody on their team, like the head of land acquisition that you want to be like, look how smart this person is, your money safe. Right. and and then, and then the second layer of connection, you drive it with the audience, right? So the audience that shows up there. It started off as six people. Now we get regularly a hundred plus, right. A week that, that show up and whether it's 6 60 or 600, that person feels like they're getting an hour with my client right. On a call because they get to spend their time, you know, seeing them speak and like talking to somebody else. And you drive that, you drive that connection the same way, the great radio shows do it. Right. If you're, if you, if you're a color more than once you got a nickname. Right, right. And, and knowing where people are from and remembering who shows up and, and driving, you know, driving the inside jokes of the people that show up all the time. Right. Like that is something that Howard stern did really well. It's something that Dan Lebatard has done very, very well in the sports world, you know, like that type of stuff. Right. And then the third connection is driving the connection between the guests and the audience. Right. So when you're inciting. Participation and somebody actually puts it in. You give them a piece of the stage. You don't just take the question and say, Hey, what are the top three things I can do to increase my cashflow? You say, oh, Hey, I'm Lee Bishop who just called in and he's from Baltimore and he's got multiple properties, but has been here a bunch of times he's asking this, right? So you phrase it as an introduction. So that way you feel like you're number one, adding value to the audience member of creating that connection that they can then reach out after like, Hey, I'm the one that asked that question and Pablo talked about me, whatever. Right? Like, and, and B you also make the guests feel like they, they are being introduced to somebody and you can, and you can put them in front of them. Right? So those, those are the three connections that we're driving. That's a very intangible thing, but then you move into the content piece. Yeah. And the content piece, you know, is about that one hour. Call that one hour webinar that one hour online event into a branded YouTube show attend best minutes, you know, branded YouTube short the, the, the audio becomes a branded podcast. The lessons learned become an email that goes out to your nurture sequence. The expanded email becomes an SEO optimized blog and the five best interactions between my, the guest and my client or the guests saying something really smart. Or my clients saying something really smart become these like optimally formatted, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram video vignettes that are, that are. You know, maximize for engagement where it has that hook story offer framework. You've seen my stuff, right? Like how it's got like a, like a, like a three second kind of like intro to go. That's where I made my first million bucks and then brand comes in. And then everything else comes afterwards with the subtitles, with a, with a headline that, you know, that is a hook point and with captions written so that they kind of work in concert to get you to stop the scroll, right? Like the, make a thumb stopping experience. We also take the five best Q and a segments. And we put the person's name who asked the question on the front title screen, would the question written out and then the guest answering it. Right. So like, so now, like the audience gets a little piece of the stage as well, and they get to make it to the social feeds and then we take the five best things set and we turn them into quote cards. Right. Same thing that I'm going to do with us right now. But with audience participation also highlighting it and having live people in there so that you're creating that three-way connection. Right. So. As that flywheel spins, right? Like the first guests that you, that, that, that you request is like, Hey man, I want you to come talk to my clients, but that's the only time you do that. After that everybody else would invite us like, Hey man, you're going to come talk. I'm gonna introduce you to my clients. You're going to see how well it went on the last one. I'm gonna make a ton of marketing material about you. I'm gonna promote you. So you're getting better and better guests, right? As you're driving those three levels of connections, you get more and more audience because people, you know, we get regular showing up. Like every week we have somebody new that ends up staying for another like six months coming to the show almost every week kind of thing. Right? Like we're up to a solid, like 20 to 25 regulars. And, and like I said, an audience of like 60 to 120 people per week. and and then, and then as, as that happens and you get more and more people, then you get better and better other pieces of content. Cause you're getting all these different ways of asking the same questions that allows you to recontextualize and then plugging that into their business development process. You know, that creates that flywheel. Oh. And then all the micro content pieces. Drive to a Facebook community, right? Like, or wherever the community is going to be hosted, it could be mighty networks, but all of that is, and on the show, it's like, Hey man, you want to interact with us throughout the week, go to the Facebook group. We now have 2,800 people in the Facebook group, right. In LA and a little bit over a year. Right. So it, all of that stuff ends up, you know, you create all these like minor role players within the community that show up on the content regularly that are now also in the other community. And they're, well-known commodities of who they are and what they care about. The guests of the shows are also, you know, more like the celebrities in the kind of community. And then there is the client who sits at top of it. That's the connection. point of all of it Yeah.

Kalim Aul:

There's levels of this. Yes. Okay. This is fun. okay. So I scribbled a bunch of stuff down my white paper here, you know very interesting. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna rent for a little bit, but my thoughts. Be the stage. Okay. I don't like to compare. I'm not one to compare very often, unless it really makes sense. And it's not a negative comparison, like better or worse. Right. It's just a different comparison. So you and sweet fish, you are different, very different. Be the stage, be the stage. It's a different angle. Sweet fish is content-based networking feels very different even though it's like. The activities are so close in analogous, right? Two

Pablo Gonzalez:

years ago, content based networking is what I would have called what I'm saying. Right. Like, you know, like I, and by the way, I didn't read condom as networking until like a couple of months ago when James Carberry actually sent me the book. And I think it's great.

Kalim Aul:

Oh, okay. I haven't read it yet, but I just thought about the labels just to start. That's interesting just to kind of get us away from that comparison stuff. then I go in here and I'm gonna point out something that I see. That's very different. When we say be the stage, you mean a physical space. You like to do physical events, not just virtual. Is that what I'm understanding? I mean, I do.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Aye, but this is the adaptation of physical events to the online world.

Kalim Aul:

Okay. So you are replicating what you have done with physical events into a digital space, correct?

Pablo Gonzalez:

This is the formula that a chamber of commerce does the content layer on it to provide scale.

Kalim Aul:

I got you. Okay. Beautiful. Beautiful. Okay. I like this. You facilitate three types of connections. You magnify those interactions, those conversations, those thoughts, magnify them, and then that's content. And then you see where the value is. And then you put that back into the connections again, to get everyone together. Again, I think that's beautiful. I think that's very beautiful. what's interesting to me is that you separate content and value. That is interesting. And I think it's good because it suggests that there's an evaluation of which parts of your content or which content that you're producing is actually getting people to where they need to go. Right. You're saying that not all of our content is going to do that, whereas, you know, Now how you decide what's valuable. That's probably qualitative, very qualitative people talking to you so on and so forth.

Pablo Gonzalez:

I mean, it starts off qualitative and then becomes Quantus

Kalim Aul:

quantitative. Okay. Wants to get

Pablo Gonzalez:

scale. Okay. I got you, you know, to, to go down the path that you're going to me, the content piece is purely mechanical. It's how can we very quickly turn one pillar piece? You know, it's the Gary V process done for you, right? It's how do you take one pillar thing and amplify it by, you know, repurposing it all over the place and there's multiple content repurposing houses out there, right? Like there is, I'm sure you can get that service done for you somewhere between$1,500 to 3000 bucks a month. you know, if you're doing one thing per week, right? so the content repurposing for me is that's purely a mechanical process stuff that I have that I've created in the best way possible, based on what I've seen everybody else do. I think we have the best process for it. The value piece is the overall branding strategy of where you, you know, understanding, positioning and who you are. Right. Like we could have called this JWB show, the rental income property show, but we called it the nacho average investor show because we knew that we needed to talk to people. We needed to cast a wider net that would still enroll people into the type of person that you know, invests in rental income properties with their 401k kind of thing. Right. And then the connection piece is the, the psychology and behavioral sciences stuff of, of what makes people form community. Right.

Kalim Aul:

Okay. Okay. Very interesting. Okay. So I think here's, here's what I'm going to say. The thing that I see that's the most different from anything I've seen is that you, the digital part is like the digital part is the accomplice. What's really different is you're saying the way that we do things in physical space is actually the way that we should do them digitally.

Pablo Gonzalez:

You nailed it, bro.

Kalim Aul:

I haven't seen that angle. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Listen, you're nailing it. Right? Cause I, I find myself screaming from the top of the mountains that. Your content should not be driven audience in it should be relationship. out

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Relationship.

Kalim Aul:

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is very, very interesting, very, very interesting relationship out audience and relationship out. Yeah. Sustainable. Sustainable. Okay. Okay. So that's, that's great. The thing is you already have a title for this relationship flywheel, right? So the sub copy under that, the line underneath that relationship flywheel, the one sentence, right. Is where that bang correct

Pablo Gonzalez:

happens. Then they would see above the fold. Bang is what

Kalim Aul:

I'm missing, bro. You above the full bang, right?

Pablo Gonzalez:

And I can tell you what we've iterated through, right? Like we've iterated through and I don't know where it is right now. Right. But like we've made it through make relationships, your unfair advantage with a relationship flywheel to make, what is it it's make community creation, your business development engine with a live online show. you know, like we're, we're struggling with the idea of, should we even say relationship flywheel above the fold or is that just what we call our product and somebody landing on above the fold, in order to know what we do should know that what this is, is a interactive live online show that then gets, you know, about your clients that then gets turned into like a million pieces of content that drive your marketing engine kind of thing. Right? Like how do we package

Kalim Aul:

that? Not this is where I think. First of all a visual, well,

Pablo Gonzalez:

we'll make a visual. Th th that's why, that's why I want to enlist you individual makers.

Kalim Aul:

Cause we have to connect. We have to connect some things. Right. and then after we make that visual, I think we need to write this little above the fold sub-line of a line of copy. And I don't, I don't know what the exact answer is yet, but I do know that when you say relationship flywheel, I think we need to focus on this fundamental flaw of the internet in a sense, it sort of tricks you into thinking you can do more scale than you can. It's sort of. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but it's if you think that you should do things, it's like a totally different set of rules on the internet. Do you remember this thing about like the difference between business and relationships? Well, years people think that like the same thing with physical space and digital space. No, no, no. The digital world, everything changes all of a sudden. So that's a big part of your narrative is that, you know, using a relationship flywheel, which is the process that we've developed through physical events and making that digital is the most organic, authentic way for you to actually grow your business right now. Yeah. so I think that the next phase is definitely to get this into a visual with relationship flywheel, like boom, at the top, with the full explanation, the full explanation, you know that involves breaking down the three sections, value, connections, and content into sub categories basically. Right. so when people look at that model, they won't fully understand it from the beginning. It takes time on any model for the things to click, but they'll get enough where they stick with it. And it's like, there's something going on here? Wait a minute. There's something going on here? This is something's

Pablo Gonzalez:

up with this. Yeah. Right. Okay. So my, my, you know, the most simple way that I've shown it. Is essentially value connections, content, and then arrows that said creates creates creates, right? So like value creates connections, creates content, creates value, creates connections, creates content. So I'm envisioning kind of like that with a find out more button in the middle of it.

Kalim Aul:

value, connections, content, value, connections, content, find out more and expand it. go into details what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. I liked that. I think it's important that the model will be simple enough that people aren't overwhelmed by it. Yeah. But it'd be descriptive enough that they don't just think you're another one of those people making a model. Correct. And calling it something. Yeah. so yeah, I think as we draw this for ourselves, we're creating clarity for ourselves and that's why I said, oh, you do the copy after. Yeah. After we've really described this for ourselves and we're like, oh, what are we really doing here? What's the unique thing we're really doing here. And I know it has to do with the fact that you created this system out of physical space. You're right. There's something different about it because of that. I'm going to tell you that and you need to highlight what that difference is.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. which is to me, the live interaction between an audience and a guest, like that's what happens with physical space. That's what happens at a keynote. That's what happens at a panel, you know, in physical space that, that live interaction of one to few. Hmm, is what sets apart. The difference between me and sweet fish, sweet fish is doing one-to-one in once in many, because it's interviewing somebody on a podcast. And then one to many is releasing the podcast, while the one to few of having the 60 to 120 people on the zoom call that feel like they own a piece of it. That's the gold

Kalim Aul:

Oh, wow. Man. That is killer. What you just said. There is killer, you know? yeah. Yeah. I think the key is this, this sense of like my events, aren't me just like blasting something on a speaker to you, come and listen in. This is what's normal now come and listen in, come and listen in. So we have to, there's a new game. There's a new, it's not actually a new game in a sense, it's an old game that's being made new. But I think that is really the, the core uniqueness of this, as opposed to like repurpose content or make a podcast and repurpose it. Right. those is like what everyone's saying, you know, all the way, I'll be able to know what they're talking about or saying it. Right. so

Pablo Gonzalez:

you're exactly it works by the way like that works the next level, right? Like I'm a supporter, like I said, I'm a big fan of sweet fish.

Kalim Aul:

Like it think James Carbary is the man. I will pay them no problem, right. To make a podcast for me. But, but it's not the only thing. Correct. And so I think that you are not really making a podcast.

Pablo Gonzalez:

This podcast is a feature in what I do community is the benefit, right? Like there's a big distance between having a podcast and creating community and by creating live events to produce the podcast, you bridge that gap of that community

Kalim Aul:

in the content community creates the podcast

Pablo Gonzalez:

community created. Yeah.

Kalim Aul:

That's kind of what it is. Yeah.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Listen, right before this call, I was thinking client led content or whatever, right. Like. Cause I, you know, to tell you the story of JWB, right? Within four months, we completely redesigned their website because their website looked like a Prudential life thing with some gray hair, gold dude on a boat with some old lady. And we hosted a couple of these calls and we realized the audience looks like me and you, it looks like people in their thirties that are just like, well, my, my 401k, isn't going to cut it. So I gotta figure out something else to save for retirement. And we completely redesigned their website from a real estate driven website to a you're too busy for a real estate driven website.

Kalim Aul:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. so I, yeah, I think the, the, the I'm thinking about the difference between having the podcast be the centerpiece. As opposed to having the interaction, the interaction between the people in the community, be the centerpiece, and then you repurpose that into a podcast. Right? Correct. That's a different approach. Yeah.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Which by the way, is what Chris Walker is doing. That's true. It's exactly what we just want. You know, this Terminus event was Terminus is doing that. Like, you know, you know, sand Grumet, sacrum is trading these podcasts out of events that he holds through the peak community that then go onto his podcast, flip my funnel. It's the same thing. And they just, they just have massive marketing teams that outsource piece to do that. Yeah,

Kalim Aul:

totally. Totally. Yeah. So some people are here's, you know what it is, there's I think there's some sort of a friction or barrier to entry. to making that move from regular old podcast to like interactive community event. I there's like an extra,

Pablo Gonzalez:

yeah, it's a staffing. It's a, it's a friction of manpower, right? Like I've made that very seamless, right? Like for me, my, my thing is you do this, your team spends three hours a week doing it. I take care of everything else.

Kalim Aul:

Okay. So now that, that is the game. That is the game. There's a winning game that is being played that you are describing, not just by you. You just mentioned other people who are doing well. in those games that you call the relationship flywheel, and it's not a podcast, it involves a podcast, but at the core is not a podcast. That's the difference between creating a relationship flywheel of where a relationship flywheel needs the. Sense of a great and greater sense of unity and engagement and interaction. People have to feel like they know each other even more you're crossing connections. You're doing this. Yeah. You're not just like doing this one linear now we all know this

Pablo Gonzalez:

person. Yeah. So, so, you know, I think that once we draw this out, you will, your mouth will utter that sentence. That's what I think. All right. I'm into it, man. I'm super into it. I think this was super helpful for me, man. Like I think there's, there's a couple of notes that I took here and now having this captured on content. Right. And like having this go out on my podcast so people can hit me up and be like, Hey, I heard it. Give me some advice. Right. Like if I'm just going to say it right now, if you're listening to this podcast right now and something sticks out at you, shoot me an email or hit me up on social and tell me your advice. Right? Like I'm putting this out there to, to crowdsource the advice. Absolutely.

Kalim Aul:

Absolutely.

Pablo Gonzalez:

And if you need help figuring out your, your core messaging hit up Kalim because he's a man. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Kalim Aul:

but yeah. Yeah. So, you know, in any case, I think, I think that it, it, it really, I like that you stamped relationship on it because you just took the most important word in the dictionary.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Awesome dude. Cool, man. All right. So then let's end this with my usual rapid fire that I do on podcasts. You good with that?

Kalim Aul:

Go for it. Let's go.

Pablo Gonzalez:

All right. What is your favorite restaurant? Where is it?

Kalim Aul:

I like Bon Shaun and I like Korean fried chicken from Bon John. Where's that? It's an Austin,

Pablo Gonzalez:

Massachusetts, Austin, Massachusetts,

Kalim Aul:

and the close to Boston university. that area, Boston Allston is appalled.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Oh my God. I feel like, dude, I feel like we're in the movie road trip. You know what I'm talking about, dude, there's a, there's an old Tom green movie where Tom Green's like, there's something like he supposed to be in Boston and he's that any here's Austin. So then he sends his friends on this road trip to Austin to save, but it's Allston, Massachusetts. Yeah. That's what's up. what, one thing that you were sure about in your twenties that you no longer believe. I guess you are, are you 30? I'm 30. I'm

Kalim Aul:

30. I'm almost 30.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. Okay. So what is something that you were sure about in your late teens, early twenties that you no longer believe?

Kalim Aul:

Hmm. I was sure that you had to go to college to have a good life

Pablo Gonzalez:

that has been disproven.

Kalim Aul:

That has been disproven by myself. I know there's many oats. Yeah. That would be, that'd be probably it, because I, the narrative was just, just, that was the narrative data. It was like, you don't go to college, you don't finish college. You life's over, you know? Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, really dude. That's like how it works.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. I need all that debt know. Thank you, YouTube. You have disproven that. What content are you most into right now? This could be like the book that you're the concept that you're most obsessing about out of a book or like the podcasts that you most listened to, or the YouTube channel you're most into, or the show on Netflix that you're most like Netflix and chilling over web. Like what content are you most like regularly consuming right now?

Kalim Aul:

So I would say that the content that I consume most frequently is, is literally just reading comment sections on LinkedIn and in peak. I want to see what people think, how they think about things. Yeah. Because I will break the whole damn thing down if I figure out how the everyone's thinking about things differently, you know?

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yep. So, so Pete, so peak community is one of the places that you're doing a lot of, a lot of reading the consumer kind of like reaction. Is there, are there people specific on LinkedIn whose comment sections you live in more than others?

Kalim Aul:

yes, I like Marcus wrench, customer value led growth. He's, he's a sustainable growth player, so we're completely aligned. I like, you know, Chris Walker, I love Chris Walker, but he's got a bunch of blue liquors in the comments now, and it's not fun anymore. Um, um, and then I, I would say besides Marcus wrench, someone that I'm really, really, really into So I listened to State of demand gen. I love, I love, I love Chris Walker. Okay. I'm I'm, I'm not hitting at all. and I, I listened to ABM conversations podcast with In our community conversations he just had Seth Godin on sick. You have a day, so he's an amazing podcast, amazing podcast. and yeah, and I would say, I would say those two dimension live in ABM pod conversations are the two podcasts that I'm listening to. Most Marcus wrench on LinkedIn is who I'm following a lot. yeah. And then peak peak is like my, my, my resting place.

Pablo Gonzalez:

we're going to give a lot of love to peek here, man. Yeah, for sure. what is the. Either the singular, like piece of advice that someone's given you that's really stuck out for you or like your one go-to piece of advice that you find yourself giving people all the time.

Kalim Aul:

Hmm. yeah, I would, I would just say don't, don't let the world don't let the world convince you that you're not where you were meant to be at this top point in time.

Pablo Gonzalez:

I like that

Kalim Aul:

because yeah, you maybe you're meant for something greater, but always remember that, like you're here now. You're meant to be this way. Now it's your normal evolution. The world will try to convince you that you're, that you're supposed to be farther ahead than you are right now. What's the point what's wrong, Pablo, you know? and they just don't, they don't, they, they are ignorant. They're ignorant of your life journey. They're ignorant of your growth curve. They're ignorant to how you learn things and how you see the world. You know, so always know you are in the right place at the right time. Now.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Brilliant, bro. Brilliant. I love that, man. before I asked you the last question, Kalim somebody that just listened to two episodes of you, spit and fire, you know, what they want to, they want to connect with you, man, like, right? This is, this is your moment to tell our friend who's been hanging out with us, where to, where, where do they connect with you? What's, what's the best place to reach you promote anything that you want to promote. It's your stage

Kalim Aul:

look I'm on LinkedIn constantly. You want to find me? I will be there. if you message me and, you know, w with something totally legitimate, I will always respond. I will always respond. and then, you know, in terms of a promotion, you know I just want, you know, anyone listening. I want you to qualify yourself right now, qualify yourself. Are you in the top 1% of marketers, do you see yourself that way? And do you want to get 1% better? Every single week with a group of peers, like-minded peers who are at the top of their game. Okay. Look, not everybody is going to want to put all that time in and that effort, all the engagement, all the collaboration, the events, right? so I want you to decide whether that's for you and if you are a high level marketer who is interested in this reach out to me, and we can talk a little bit more about it. Cool.

Pablo Gonzalez:

And this is awkward because this is what my final question is always, but I think, I think we know the answer. It's where do you find community?

Kalim Aul:

B E a K.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Yeah. We've talked about it. Plenty, man. Yeah, that is, it's a great community man. Like, I, I very, very much endorsed them and I've gotten a lot. It's like what? Like 200 bucks a year. Like I it's such a, like a, no brainer,

Kalim Aul:

10 bucks a month for the base.

Pablo Gonzalez:

So it's unless it's like a hundred bucks a year. Yeah. Correct. It's like a hundred bucks a year. It's it's such like a no brainer of I've got a buddy right now. That is, he's the, he's the VP of marketing for this power company that after the Texas kind of like apocalypse is basically going bankrupt and he doesn't know if he's going to have a, if he's going to have a job tomorrow, I'm like bro twin peak, like there's so many job opportunities. There's so many like career advancements, people to connect with generous people. I think it's awesome. Cool, man. Colleen, I appreciate you doing this bro. Like I, I From the moment that I saw you posting in inside of peak, I knew you're a guy that I'm going to build a relationship with just because of the way that you show up as a cheerleader for people. And I think, I think that everybody needs more cheerleaders. There isn't a single person that couldn't use an extra cheerleader and, and the way that you show up there is super, super valuable. But on top of that, you're just super smart, super perceptive, deep, deep thinker that I can tell values, the things that I value, which is relationships and, and sustainability. So I'm just glad we did this, man. I appreciate you shining your star on my stage, bro.

Kalim Aul:

I appreciate you having me brother. Thank you.

Pablo Gonzalez:

Good stuff.